understand that, and what they are going to be doing now, it's important to them to be able to create a safe environment for this gentlemen to be able to tell his story. they know heights a complicated story and they know it will take time. they want to earn his trust and let him know that they are his voice to the outside world. martha: very interesting. and we know that he's in a bunker. he has been sort of fortifying and planning this place for quite some time. the neighbors were aware that he was building this underground there, you know, but you need to obviously appeal to his sense of this child, and that this child has nothing to do with whatever it is that is bothering him, right? >> well, yeah, i mean he feels -- for whatever reason he feels attacked, he feels very defensive about what is going on around him. everything that he's done is clearly to protect himself. the child is not a threat to him, and for whatever reason it was that he took this child it's part of his mechanism to try and protect himself. so he shouldn't see this child as a threat, and he's probably -- the negotiators can actu